What advice would you give to somebody starting out on their entrepreneurial journey?
If somebody really does have this vision and they want to do some sort of business, open a business, sell something, a service, a product, I certainly, looking back, would say it's just taking the plunge.
Yeah.
And then once you take the plunge, it's just like.
Then you just gotta go.
Welcome to this episode of Daring Dreams podcast. This is your host, Hailey Bowen, and I am here with an old friend and a fabulous entrepreneur, Sean Casey. Sean Casey's actually been in the golfing industry for about 25 years. He is a professional golf association of Canada coach. He's also the owner of Burlaw indoor Golf.
He has been the CGA of Canada Coach of the year one time. He's been the Ontario Teacher of the year with the CGA three times, and he's even worked with Sean Foley, who is Tiger woods coat.
Welcome to this episode of Daring Dreams podcast. This is your host, Hayley Bowen, and I am here with an old friend and a fabulous entrepreneur, Sean Casey. Sean Casey's actually been in the golfing industry for about 25 years. He is a professional golf association of Canada coach. He's also the owner of Burlock indoor golf.
He has been the CGA of Canada coach of the year one time. He's been the Ontario teacher of the year with the CGA three times, and he's even worked with Sean Foley, who is Tiger woods coach. So this guy has it going on, and I'm so happy to have him with us. Actually, Sean and I grew up together, and I remember when he was younger and he. He used to say, I want to be a golf pro.
That's what he wanted to be. And, you know, when you're young and you have all these inspiring reasons, I wanted to be an actress, but I'm not. But he wanted to be a golf pro, and he did it. And I just think that's the best thing you can possibly do. So welcome to the show, Sean.
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
You're welcome. Okay, so let's jump right into your business. I want to share your journey of the creation of your business.
Your business is four years old or five.
Yeah, it'd be going on four, going on fours.
Yeah, it was just at the beginning. And so why don't you first share with the audience kind of what your business is, and then you can tell us why you started.
Sure.
So the Burlock indoor golf. It's. It's an indoor golf filthy. You know, the. We try to service golfers the nice thing, I guess, in Canada is you've got kind of two seasons, and the indoor golf season has really taken on.
You know, in the past, golfers would golf in the summer. They put their clubs in the garage and, you know, let them collect some dust and pick them back up in the spring. But that, that's very much changed. So the indoor golf season is, has really grown, I guess you'd say the indoor experience and the technologies used have made it better. So now all of a sudden, golfers are like, oh, the indoor season is kind of fun.
The technologies that track the shots are more accurate. So in the past, I think people probably get frustrated. They go play indoor golf, and they'd be like, well, that's not really what my ball does. And they just say, I'm not doing indoor golf. But now the tracking technology is not so much better that people use the winner as an opportunity to learn to get better, get feedback on their shots, and head into next season, improve.
So in many ways, it's all about using the off season to get better. My facility is definitely geared towards that. A lot of practicers in here, a lot of people taking lessons. We have a fitness trainer that trains people for getting their body to move better. We have a club repair shop.
People get their clubs dialed in, get the shafts and angles all fixed up, get their grip stuck, done, make sure their clubs are correct. We have short game area, so you can hit chips and putts. So. And then we did just add on something that's a little outside of what we're used to, which has kind of been a fun experiment and went away from our, our normal, but we added on a licensed lounge and bar.
Oh, fun.
So it is the social of golf, too.
Yeah. Yeah. So it's been really neat to, like, some of our people don't ever go there. It does have a separate entrance, but it's been kind of nice to add on.
And we do realize that some of our clients, even though they're trying to get better and take the game, I guess you'd say, seriously, we see some of them spending some of their time over there. They also like to bring, bring their wife in or their kid, or, you know, their co worker and have a beer and have a pizza and play golf. And so it's been kind of neat to add that on.
And then we also quite a big facility. How big is it?
It's 13,000 sqft.
Yeah, that's big.
Wow. Three of those are dedicated to the licensed areas. Ten of it is dedicated to the.
We'll say the game improvement side, but, yeah, so it's. It's a full service facility is the goal. You know, we want people to be able to come in these doors and we want to have everything that they would ever need. As far.
Are you open in the summer?
We are, yeah. It's. It's certainly slower in the summer, but our summer business over the few years we've been doing it had picked up. It's gotten better every year. So I think, you know, the sun, it can get hot in the summer, for one thing.
So we find people are interested in coming in here in the air conditioned environment is one thing. The other thing is just the. Again, the feedback. You know, you go to a driving range and the balls aren't very good. And there's times where I, you know, I think some people feel that they can get better at our place and get better feedback than going to a driving range where, you know, that might not have the best golf ball, so they don't really fly very well.
Right. Yeah, I'm the driving range kind of. Kind of girl. I know the difference at all. Not the best golfer, I will admit.
Okay, so what inspired you? What inspired you to do this in the first place?
Well, it was 2020, and I'm sure everybody remembers when Covid hit and we went into the lockdowns for the first lockdown, when we were all sitting at home for the first time, we thought, myself and the other instructors, that when sort of the lockdown was over, we would go back to Len Abbey. So I was the director of instruction at this academy. It was probably the largest academy in Canada.
We had, I think, ten instructors at the time and doing a lot of golf instruction, a lot of kids programs. And so we thought we would go back there. But then the. When the Ontario government allowed golf instruction to resume, our company that ran the facility informed us that they were not going to reopen that academy. So sort of sudden, all of a sudden, we're like, okay, we're going to get back to teaching.
And then it was like, but you can't come back here. So it was sort of a little bit of a. We'll call it a scramble. Yeah, like, what are we going to do? Our students are ready for us to get back into learning, and they want us to start teaching the kids again.
And we don't have a facility. So those few months was a real challenge as a group of instructors. We kind of went everywhere. We split up, kind of just found a place. But then the.
When the fall came around. We also thought, okay, maybe they're gonna let us come back for the winter. They didn't let us teach that summer. And then we found out, no, sorry, guys, we're actually not doing indoor lessons either. So that's when it was like, okay, all the instructors, we found a place to teach all at different facilities for those three months.
I told them, I said, guys, I'll try to find a place and build a new place for us. I put some effort into it. It didn't work. I felt I couldn't find the right home. I couldn't find the right facility, the right size, the right ceiling height, zoning that would allow us to hit golf balls indoors, yada, yada.
I just.
And were you feeling the burden of, like, their livelihood?
I did.
I mean, do you have that pressure on your shoulders?
I did.
I felt pressure from them. I also personally did need a place to teach miles, dudes.
Yeah.
So what I did, Haley, was I. I found a place for me as a backup plan just for me at someone else's facility.
So I went into a place that already exists and said, hey, I may need a place to teach this winter. Would I be able to do that here? And they said, yeah, this is how much it'll cost you. So I was going to just start renting a spot at someone else's facility. And then I went to the instructors at my team, and I said, guys, I said, I can't seem to find the right for us.
I said, and I found a place for myself, and I said, and I suggest you guys all do the same. Go. Go find a golf zilli that already exists and see if you can all find a place to hang your hat and teach golf. This is really the turning point. They didn't accept that.
So it was them, like, them looking at me going, no, you can't give up. They really wanted to. I guess, to a degree they wanted, and they wanted me to find them a place. They didn't want me to give up, but they, I think to some degree, they wanted to keep our team together. You know, we had been teaching alongside each other, all of our students.
The whole academy we had built, you know, extends beyond the instructors. It's the hundreds of people we teach. There's this community there, right? And so that was pretty powerful that they didn't accept my know.
How did they tell you that?
Did they just be like, no, like, that's not okay. Now, Sean, go back to the drawing board.
I think it was on a Zoom call because, you know, in those days, you couldn't really meet in person. There was probably another lockdown or something. We were on a Zoom call trying to figure out what we were going to do.
I think it. There was a little bit of feedback on the call, but it was probably more the private conversations that happened just after, you know, as soon as the Zoom call ended, phone started ringing, like, no, Sean. Like, you know, they started pushing. And then it's the sort of 2.0 of the, the effort. It's like you fail, you give up.
I guess what's kind of weird is how your brain, like, you think you exhaust all your opportunity.
Yeah.
Then you kind of hit rock bottom and give up, and you're like, this isn't a war. And then it's. Then when you, like, it's like you start thinking of the things that you probably should have thought first time.
Yeah.
So it was very interesting. I don't know why or how it happened, but I just. When they pushed me, all of a sudden, I thought of more, I guess, more outside the box of, like, how can we do this? Where could we do this?
It was then that it clicked in my brain as I. I know a guy who is pretty high up at Rio can, and they own malls and real estate across Canada, and. And I was like, maybe he knows a place. So that was it. It was really that phone call and that connection with, with him.
Here we are. We're still in that mall. It's an outlet mall. We took over clothing stores to do this. Three clothing stores now.
And they work well. High ceilings, lots of lights. You know, all the lights are. There's more than we need, but they aim anywhere you want because they were designed to aim at all the clothes and. Man.
Okay, so it's kind of a perfect scenario. We have nice windows across the front, some natural light coming in, tons of parking. We're in a mall with Home Depot and longos. And so there's lots of, you know, there's people driving by that will see us. And really the space, I guess you'll say.
So you built the space, but you kind of already had the staff and a nice little handful or bigger handful of students before you even. So that must have felt good to know that you would be able to have some people to fill this, because I know, like, that's a big risk. That sounds like a lot of property in a prime location.
Yeah, it was. It was mostly exciting, though, because I knew when we got going that it was going to be better than what they had before.
So it was kind of exciting. It's like wow, this is really cool. And I'm going to grab something off my wall and show you here.
Okay.
I, I would draw, see this was the first 5000.
My word.
I don't know if you see it but it's just like a, like a scaled map.
Yeah.
Of the space. So you can imagine I was drawing that and trying to figure out how are we going to use this 5000 sqft?
How many hitting bays can we have? Where's the putting green going to go? Where's the retail going to go? Where's the front desk check in going to be? You know, all these things and I kept erasing was using pental.
Yeah.
And I erased so much it would end up putting a hole in the paper. I was just, and I was like I need a better solution because I kept redoing it. It would just be a mess.
Yeah.
But then what I did was I, I started creating like cutouts of all the things I needed to space into it.
Okay.
Scaled. So I knew how big like a hitting that needs to be hitting that needs to be a certain height, a certain width so the golf club doesn't hit the bars. And I, so I drew out these little hitting nets and then I started using them and placing them on the paper which was scaled to the 5000.
Then all of a sudden it came together because I was like moving them around and then I realized, yes. And it was, and that's what I had that I just showed you there. So I kind of taped, scotch taped all the little pieces of the puzzle together. But there was a lot of work that went into that. So it was really, I forget, but it was like weeks and weeks of me just trying to figure out the recipe.
Yeah.
And then it was like, all right. Then it was purchasing, like buying the metal, buying the material, getting it and then inviting some people in that wanted to work some long days and nights and build. And that was the most exciting part when we hired a jack or whatever those electric, you know, you hit a button and you raise up. Yeah, whatever they're called, you know, driving that thing around and learning how to use a jack.
And we rented one and anyway, we built this place and maybe it took a month or whatever but wow.
Is that all?
That was the funnest part of the whole thing. Building it.
Yeah.
And just excited for like the day when you'd invite everybody in to go, you know, look what we built. And it was well received and it was during COVID and people appreciated that we took the risk and gave them something to do that winter again, you remember there were so many things you couldn't do. There was all kinds of activities that involved people being too close together and.
Yeah, most people would not build an entertainment facility, like, and sporting facility during.
COVID Yeah, and, you know, the coaching side required some interaction, like with another person.
They're talking to you. So, you know, we were all wearing masks and we had certain, you know, distancing requirements.
And it must have been such a good thing, though, for the people being able to get out and do something they love during that time.
It was amazing. And they, they were so appreciative.
And they, a lot of them, that first winter, I mean, probably in a way our busiest winter, but a lot of them just came every day because it was literally the only thing that they were legally allowed to do to get out of that, you know, with a lot of other activities not allowed, like there was no travel that winter. Nobody was going. So we had a lot of people that would normally go south looking for something to do, looking to stay active. Gyms were not open because gyms had, you know, people moving all over the place. In our facility, people didn't move all over the place.
You had a booked bay. You came in, you went to bay two, and you stayed there for your hour and then you left.
Right.
So it worked. It was, yeah, that was then.
It was, you're, you know, not going to go too much into it now and see where you want to take conversation. But it was that working and then going, wow, that was, that's cool. How can we grow from here? And it was really the expansion that added in all the other services, the club fitter, the trainer, the short game area, more technology. It was when we expanded that, the place really took off and went from, you know, 120,000 revenue to 4567.
It was, we really, it was 2.0 of that first model. That, right.
So how long did it take from that? Like, did you spend like a year in the first model and then start to add stuff or was it faster or slower?
So it was the first winter we operated.
That first winter, maybe October through April. That was the lease, at a short term lease to try this at work. We didn't pay rent the next summer that, but what we did was we used that whole next summer to design and figure out what we're going to do with the expansion so that when everybody came back again the following winter, it was like, wow, you've now you've really taken it up a notch and we included them in the process. You know, we polled all the people and said, what would you guys like to see in an expanded facility? And we.
And we had kind of a forget what it's called, but, you know, those online questionnaires you can send to people, we, they answered the questions and it was cool because it helped shape how much we added of those things, how much square footage we allocated to this versus that. So, you know, we kind of included the people that come here and what would you like to see in an indoor facility?
That's perfect? I mean, really? They're the ones, right?
They're the.
Yeah. So they have helped shape it for sure.
Yeah. That's great.
Okay. So, like, you've had lots of success. You took a massive risk, I think, in building it. Even though you had some networks and stuff. Was there any hurdles that you had to, like a big hurdle that you felt like, you know, maybe this is going to be too hard or I'm not gonna be able to overcome this that you were able to get past?
You know, the first 1st meeting with the coaches was a tough one. We, they had become accustomed to a certain way of doing things at Glen Abbey. It was different because I was their director there, but I. We all ultimately were working under a company. I didn't own the company, I just ran the academy and this was going to be different.
Now I'm the owner. But in a way, it was kind of nice because they no longer work for me. So there was no longer that boss, sort of, you know, where I was their boss, I was not there. I'm now the owner of silly. They don't work for me, they work for themselves and they rent space.
Okay.
So the change of structure, but at that point, giving them a better facility, but telling them that two things. One is they got a better rate, so they're going to be able to make more money under my facility, but with better facilities, that's like a win for them. Okay. This is a nicer place and I don't have to give as much money to the company.
You, as the owner, I was trying to be mindful of, hey, I'm a teaching girl. I know how much facilities cost. Charge us to teach. Yeah, I'm going to do something good for these guys. I'm going to make it a better rate.
They're going to get to keep more of their dollars. Yeah, but the, the other thing was we used to let the students practice at the facility for no charge so they could take lessons. And then when it wasn't busy. They could just practice and, well, that was going to change. You know, I saw how the whole dollars and cents were going to work.
I needed to generate some revenue off of the practice. Yeah, all of a sudden we're going to charge their students, our students a fee to be a member. And that. That was hard for them to get over. They're like, oh, my students aren't going to want to do that.
They've never had to pay for. It's like, yeah, but this is nicer. We're giving them a nicer environment. It's Covid, I have rent to pay and we need to charge them something if we're going to come here every day in practice.
And did they pay?
Was there any pushback from the actual students?
There wasn't. Thankfully, we sold. We sold out what we felt was sold out. As many as we could sell.
150 memberships that winter. I gave. What I did was I to help get through that hurdle, I did give the coaches a little commission on each student of theirs that joined. You know, I needed. I did need the students to join.
We needed people, and I also needed the coaches to support their students to join and say, hey, this would be a good thing for you to get better. You should join and practice between lessons, which is going to be helpful. So I gave the coaches a little commission to get their support on trying to encourage some of these membership sales, and it really helped spur the whole thing to get going. And so that was. That was an initial hurdle, just the change in structure and the change of 20 years of doing it a certain way.
Yeah.
One thing that's interesting, I'm sure you know this, but even when change is good, people get stressed. You can sell it to them and go, guys, this is better. Doesn't matter. It's change.
And any change, good or bad, is stressful for people. Humans just don't like change.
Absolutely. Yes.
There was a lot of change happening, and even though I felt it was all going to work out, it was all positive.
People that you're trying to sell it to at first are like, this is different. But then they get over it. You know, they get in here and they're like, all right, it's different, but it's. It is better and it's worth paying for.
Yeah.
And you need that residual income as a business owner so that you have some understanding of what is actually going to come in and it's not so volatile in terms of, like, seasonality and stuff like that. Right?
Yeah. The biggest. The biggest stresses are always just, you know, you have this attitude, if you build it, they will come.
And I say that all the time. That's from feel the dreams movie.
Yeah, but it's so true and it's, you got, you got to build it, right? You can't, you can't build it and have people come in and go, this isn't good. You know, they have to come in and it's got to be a home run.
It's got to be. Yes. It's, that's where all the effort goes in, is you got to make sure that you build something good. Message mentioned in the answers I sent you that I wasn't answering, but I sent you all my answers last night to some of your. And I said, I said, you know, measure twice, cut once.
But it's just like, you can't just, you're going to build a coffee shop. Just say, we're just going to bring in some coffee and some cups and it's like you really need to think about the whole experience, like everything. The visuals, the seats they're going to sit in, the cup they're going to grab. How are they greeted? How do they pay to, what's the parking like?
You know, you name it, there's just, there really is a million things. And it's like, what, what is the experience you're creating? And do people, if they come in and they experience your experience and pay a certain dollar for it, do they walk out and go, that was good value? I feel like that was good value. And you can, there's so many different tiers to copy and so many different tiers to go.
You can be successful at entry level, high end, mid. There's room for everybody. But I, wherever you are in there, whatever you're selling, whatever experience you're creating, you need people to walk out. Well, that was good value. You know, I paid x and I feel like I got good value for what I paid.
And then they want to walk back in and it's that, that repeat. So where are you, where are you positioned your business in terms of premium? Like. Yeah, tell me about your brand.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's premium, it's higher.
You know, it's, it's definitely one of the more expensive indoor golf facilities as far as the cost to come play and use the indoor facilities. So the range would be anywhere from about, we'll say $12 an hour.
Yeah.
You could find somewhere to go, hit a ball indoors and get some feedback on your shop with some technology for probably as low as twelve to $15. Our facility is 60.
There is certainly others out there at 60, but we are seeing more and more facilities at 15 to 2025, even 30. That's where a lot of the facilities are. And it's almost like they're battling over, you know, they're all battling each other.
Right.
I can't imagine that they are all going to survive.
So there's a lot of indoor companies in that range, and I think it's hard for the consumer to even remember which one is which. You know, there's just so many, it's like. And they're all very similar in the experience and sort of the value of what they're doing. Fortunately, we're not battling it out with them.
You know, you're so like, so did you do a positioning map?
We didn't like, where is my dot gonna be compared to all the competition? Did you do that? I remember that. I don't do it very much anymore, but I do remember that actually didn't.
Because when we opened, there was so few places around us, and really they popped up since we've opened, so.
Oh, it's more so that they're opening more and more of these places. I think people see the opportunity almost like, there's gyms, too, where you can join a gym and you don't have to. You just punch a code in and go in and do your thing, and there's no staff. We've seen a lot of those pop up in the indoor golf world where you rent it, you get a code, you punch in your code and then the door unlocks, you go in and you have to leave at a certain time so the next person can come.
In and do you for yours.
A lot of our competition are that okay. Ours is fully staffed, so, you know, our doors are open and out locked. When you come in, somebody's going to greet you. We will help set up the technology. We'll answer your questions.
If you need some support and you're, you know, if your computer crashed or anything's wrong with the technology, we can fix it. We can.
So it's like the white glove of the. The golfing indoor clubs.
I would say yes.
Yeah, I think we, we would be sort of near the top as far as the experience and the staffing and the support and all the amenities, the options, the different things you can do when you're here.
I love that. So you created the experience, and that is really what is bringing people back. How did you get the first people in the doors?
I think it was really going back to where the coaches that, yep, I'm going to come teach here.
And then they invited their students in and said, hey, come see the new place that I'm teaching.
Okay.
That's really where things started.
That's awesome. And so how do you keep growing it?
Because you've been growing it every year. What are you doing to get more and more? Like, after the initial students that the.
Coaches brought in, we really haven't done much as far as paid advertising and all that stuff. You know, I do think that Google helps.
Like, just being on Google, there's no doubt that people Google, you know, indoor golf near me and just being on there and having some positive reviews and having some pictures so they can kind of see what your facility is like. Yeah, I think that's been. Been pretty important, and I think we do get a fair amount of people that way. Being on social media probably helps to some degree, but it's. I think social media just depends on the demographic.
Like, I feel like a lot of our clients are not on Instagram, you know, for example.
You know what? I love that you're saying that, because I think there's so many small businesses who think they have to be everywhere and on everything. And I know you are probably on Instagram, but you don't have to put hours and hours of time into that if you're getting your clients through Google search, like, if they're actually looking for you. Or the sign, do you have, like, a big sign?
We do. We did end up buying, you know, year one was a banner, you know, like, just that, you know, clamped onto the wall, didn't light up. And then year two, when we expanded and kind of really committed to what we were doing, we put up a lit sign.
Yeah, just.
Just recently, the weed back onto the Qew.
So the back door, which is just like a. Whatever, there's. It's not a door anyone would use, but if you went out the back door, basically you can pick tasting Qew, where hundreds of thousands of cars go live a day. So we just put up a sign for the first time.
Okay.
Massive. I don't even know.
Signs are so expensive. Like, they really are, but so worth it.
It's not lit.
No way I could have afforded that back there. But we put up a big, big banner that's at least during daylight hours, would get quite a bit of visibility.
Nice.
We'll see. You know, that's only been up for a little bit, but I think it's already brought a few people in that didn't we were here?
Yeah. Do you ask people when they come in, like, how did you find us?
No, not enough.
I think you should.
Yeah, we really don't.
But most people come in, I would say we get a lot of people that come in because they either are going to the Home Depot.
Okay.
Or they shop for groceries in the mall, or, you know, there's certainly some people that just happen to fall upon the mall.
Yeah.
Which helps, you know, and a lot of our competitors are in industrial units because of the cheaper rent, so they're paying maybe less rent, and they're in these industrial units that no one would ever see them where we are, you know, more exposed being on the highway and in a mall.
Yeah.
I think it does help to. To be, you know, someone.
Absolutely.
You know, might.
Might just stumble upon you and see you. Right. So.
Yeah, absolutely. I think for.
For the type of thing that you're doing, I think that's really important. I just interviewed somebody else, and it was the same thing. She just moved her location from rural to the city, and she's just like, it's just insane how many more people are here. Same exact same business, just different locations. Right.
So I want to ask one question, personal question, because I like to get personal. So how do you manage work life balance right now? And do you have any tips you can offer to other people who are struggling or other entrepreneurs who might be struggling with work life balance?
I think I can offer some advice. I just need to do a better job of taking my own advice.
So true.
Me too.
Full disclosure is the balance is not there for me. I used to have it. I know how to have it.
I know some great tools, techniques, coping mechanisms, all that stuff. I think historically, I've been somebody who managed my feelings and balance really well, certainly manage stress well in my life, but not as well recently. So I've had some conversations with friends, and it's interesting, when I'm talking to them, I'm like, you are telling me what you're doing, and it's exactly what I used to do. And I'm walking out of it, and I get back in my cars with a friend recently in his house, and I'm like, I just got to get back to doing what I used to do. You know, just breathing, you know, and just breathing techniques where you just maybe go to your office, shut the door, and just focus on your breathing for five.
And I used to do those sorts of things. I used to do something called heart math. It's like a mindfulness breathing with. With connected, where you can see your heart rate variability. So you're breathing, but you can see your heart rate variability, your beat to beat change in your heart.
And basically it's called coherence, but it's like getting your heart to beat rhythmically so that the beat to beat changes are consistent. It may be a fast beating heart, but if it's consistent beat to beat, you know, you're in what's called coherence. It's when the heart's all over the place that you're in a stressed state and you're trying to get your heart to beat rhythmically. And I used to do this. I trained myself.
I didn't even need the device after all. Like, I know what the device would be telling me. Right. I knew what it felt like to be in rhythm.
Oh, that is interesting.
I think mine's probably, like, all over the place. At least my Fitbit is telling me that I'm, like, all over the place.
And actually, that's cool. The Fitbit, I mean, I used to buy these, you know, technologies to be able to measure it, but now I think you can just do it through your phone and your fitbit. So, yeah, it's more accessible, but, you know, basically, I used to manage it better, and I think it's hard.
It is. It's just, you know, just can't. You can't prepare for what a day is going to be like when you own a business like this. There's so many moving parts. There's so many people coming in your doors.
There's the ones, you know, coming in. You can prepare for those, to a degree, the booked people. Okay, it's gonna be busy day. People are booked for lessons and practice and parties. Next door, we rent out the lounge.
There's people that walk in your door that you don't even know are gonna walk. You know, opportunities and challenges that surface, and all the Wi Fi systems acting up today. And so someone's on the phone trying to get the Wi Fi going, and, you know, your tracking technology, one of them might be down. This morning, we had our first ever hole form in a screen. You know, the balls hit these screens.
Yeah.
And screens are white because you're projecting onto the screen the image of what the ball is doing. Well, today, first time ever since we opened hole right in the screen. So do we close the bay? Because, like, now if the goes through the hole, it's going to smoke the wall and behind it.
Oh, my gosh.
But just every day you come in, it's like new challenge. All right. You know, hole in that one. There's probably more holes about to start forming in all the other ones because.
They all the same age. Yeah.
So it's like, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, today's the day I need to order $10,000 in white screen. You know, and you didn't know when that was coming. You might have thought that was two more years out.
Right.
But as a business owner, it's like those things you gotta gulp and go, well, I guess we need new screens. So today, sort of, I'm trying to wrap my head around order one for the whole, as a whole, or just order all, be more on top of and ready for the other ones to start springing. You know, that was this morning's little challenge. But every day, every day, you just don't know what's gonna hit you.
So the challenge is you got a big to do. Listen, and you'd love to think you're going to check every box on it. And unfortunately, all the little things that kind of creep up that you didn't plan for sort of take away the opportunity to actually sit down and bang out your to do list.
Yeah. And so then you have one that has no check marks.
What do you do with that? Because I. I'll tell you what I do with it. It's not good, but what do you do with it? Let's talk about you.
You know, I would say that my checklist get checked as fast as I'd like, but I'm doing everything I can. I'm trying to accomplish as much as I can in a day, you know, I'll show you this little, called the Finishers journal.
Okay.
And it's like every day you kind of just put all your stuff down the side.
Yeah.
This is all what needs to be done, and this is the organization of it, starting at the top with your most important, your next most important, your next most important, sort of three tiers. Right. And then there's like, a little schedule, I guess, right here. Sorry.
So, yeah.
And this is like, your schedule of the day.
And you're still use that every day?
I do, I do. But, I mean, it's a lot even just to manage it, you know, it's just like, sometimes it's not as organized as it should be where it's like the prioritize. You know, it's organized to be put your top ones at the top and your.
But sometimes I just put it anywhere. Just like, just get it on this paper somewhere. So I can see it, you know?
Yeah.
But, um, ultimately I do have a lot of list.
And I guess the important thing for me is, is when I have time, it's important to have these lists because when you actually do have time to get some stuff done, you don't want to be going, what did I need to do? What was that thing? You know, it's. Yeah, you need to be able to get right to being active and get things done. So I think for me, it's really important when something hits my head and, like, we need to do that.
I do always write it down and I think that makes me a lot more productive. I don't just think I'm going to remember it in my head or, and.
I think that actually causes stress when you don't, when you don't write it down.
Oh, yeah.
Because then you're like, oh, I can't forget.
I can't forget. And then you, like, you have too much already going on in your head to remember all the stuff. So get it on the paper. I love that.
Yeah.
For me, that helps a lot.
That's really good.
Thank you.
That's great. Good advice.
But the balance to go there, it's not there. I mean, I'm working all day. You know, I'm here at least say nine to seven. Seven's like, I got to get, I got to get out here by seven if I want to see my kids before they go to bed. Right.
Yeah.
The challenge is, you know, you're going, you're going, going. You're literally going till the 07:00 and then you're home for me in six minutes. And I'm walking into a house where, you know, my kids are excited to see me, but there's also some expectation I'm not, like, going home and just sitting down relaxing, like, right. You know, when.
And obviously my wife's been home working all day, too, so, you know.
And your kids are young.
Yeah. So when I get home, like, I got help. Yes, you do, for sure.
And so you really don't get to relax till, you know, the kids go to bed and that can take some time.
Yeah.
Then you're pretty beat. But I try to bang out a little more work at that. The end of the day, get back to some emails I didn't get back to.
And I bet you if I interview you again in like, two or three years, it will be, it'll have smoothed out a bit because I think it's just a matter of who you have around. Right. Like, if you have to be there because you're the one putting out the fires and making all the decisions. Like, do you have kind of like a right hand person that can.
Yep, I do have.
I do have support, for sure, and they are helpful and we got great staff, but there's no doubt you just can't, you can't replace yourself. The passion, the commitment that I bring. You can't almost cannot possibly pay someone enough to care as much as you. And you can't. If you really care about your business, you can't just think, I'm just going to pay somebody and I'm just going to sit on a beach while they run my business.
Yeah, nobody cares like that.
I've accepted that. Nobody will ever care as much as me.
Are you still teaching?
Yep.
I still teach a lot as well.
Okay.
And I still love to teach and I still enjoy teaching. So it's, you know, that's been a little bit of a challenge, too, but I. I don't teach as much, and that allows me to, when I do teach, you know, do a good job.
And for me, it's almost a little break, which is nice, you know?
Yeah, I was going to say that would be kind of like your, your super fun time, probably.
Well, I get to. I get to just be with that person and be present, focused on them and try to help them. And so I kind of between, in my day, I'm kind of bouncing between the business and coaching.
So I just try to space out the coaching a little bit and do the right amount per day, but I certainly don't want to stop doing it. And to some degree, you know, when I built the facility, as much as I did it for other people, I. I also was excited about building it for me and giving myself a better place to teach and a better experience for my students. So part of what this place is, is an exciting place for me to do my coaching.
Well, you literally built something like your lifelong passion is golfing, right?
Yeah. I just think it's awesome when people are able to turn their passions into careers.
Right.
So even though. Yes.
You're running back and forth. Yes. There's, like, a lot of fire to put out. You're still doing what you love. Do you still feel that?
You still feel that?
Yeah, I do. I mean, I do love it. It's. Yeah.
I don't think there was much more in childhood that I get excited about than going to a golf facility, whether it be indoor, outdoor, like, even when I used to go to Westfield, where our parents were members you know, going to Westfield Golf Club and experiencing what happened there, the excitement I would get hanging a left on that golf club road or whatever it was called, that was awesome for me. I just love going there. And even in the winter when all the bar had, like, some net and then Marshall McMahon took over as a pro, but, you know, there wasn't much of an indoor facility. It was just a few nets to hit into. But I loved it.
And I remember being so excited to just be able to swing a golf club in the winter and go there with my brothers and the other junior golfers and get some tips from the pro. And it's kind of neat when I look back and I'm like, you know, I loved that experience. On a scale of one to ten, that would have to been considered probably a one out of ten. On the scale of great indoor golf.
Delays, one being the best.
I mean, to me it was the best, but.
Oh, one being the worst. Oh, yeah, yeah. And now you're like, at the ten.
Yeah.
So it's just like.
But I still like to see what you're saying.
I absolutely loved it, and it was just, it's neat to now have built something that's closer to a ten, you know, and give people a great indoor golf experience.
What a gift to give people that chance to do something they love year round. Like, that's a, that's a meaningful gift to give people.
Cause I know, like, for me, in the winter, like, I love to ski. Skiing's not very good here. Like, to have that passion to be able to go and do it in all seasons is a big deal.
So that's awesome.
Okay, I have one more question for you.
What advice would you give to somebody starting out on their entrepreneurial journey?
You know, I can't say that I took the plunge as early as I wanted to or because you, as I told you, I actually kind of pushed back and said I wasn't doing it, and then it was the other people. So I certainly drew some energy from other people to spur this on. I'm impressed with people who don't do that. I'm impressed with people who do it earlier, younger, take the risk even sooner.
Yeah.
I can't sit here and tell you that I'm that person. I can tell you that when I did jump in and do it, I did go all in, and I think. I think I did a pretty good job and commit myself to doing a lot of right things. But if somebody really does have this vision and they want to do some sort of business.
Open a business, sell something, a service, a product. I certainly, looking back, would say you do. Got, it's just taking the plunge.
Yeah.
And then once you take the plunge.
It'S just like, then you just gotta go.
It just, it's amazing how everything starts to unfold, but you just gotta say, I heck with it. I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Okay.
There's hurdles. Money. What am I gonna do? What's the plan? Where's the home of this business going to be?
Yes, but maybe if you have a job and you're like, I don't feel like I can leave my job. Work on your side, business on the side. Start making phone calls. Figure out what the rent is. Rent places.
Figure out the size of the place you're going to rent. Does it need store frontage? Could you be in a commercial place versus, you know, an industrial, but start doing homework. And then once you decide, okay, that's, that's the type of place we're going to be in. That's how much square footage we need.
That's how much the rent's going to cost. Then start figuring out your products. What do we, what do we sell, where we're going to source them? Just start chipping away at the recipe, and at some point you're going to go, okay, we got enough pieces of the recipe together here. And then the most exciting thing is just pulling the trigger.
Let's do it. Let's sign a lease. Let's order our first product.
Yeah.
Let's create a logo and a brand and what's it going to look like?
What's the price going to be? And then it's fun, because it's like, all right, we're doing this. And when the people walk in the door, what are they going to experience? Music playing? What kind of music is going, what's the first mat they step on when they walk up to the counter?
Is there always someone there or not? You need, is it pre booked? How do they book? What's the booking process? It's, um.
You just really start going through the whole thing. And, and when you hand them their product, is it in a bag? Does that bag have your logo on it? Like, you name it? It's just so many little pieces to them.
The process in the experience. And that's, that's where it's fun. And you start really digging in, but you gotta find a place, and you gotta figure out what you're gonna sell, and you gotta actually go ahead and set up an account and order it, yeah. Commit to doing this, but I just think you gotta pull the trigger on that initial. And that's the biggest thing.
That's the hardest part. I know, like, for marketing on purpose. I had this idea four years before I actually started it. So it took that long for me to be like, okay, now's the time. Now's the time.
So, and I didn't have any, like, I'm service based, so I didn't have the risk that you had other than the lost income of going out on my own. Right.
Yep. So it's just taking the plunge, you know? And if people have the fear of doing that, a lot of them never do it.
They just, again, it's change. It's, I mentioned somewhere in there, there's certainly a lot of delayed gratification. And if you're trying to, if you're trying to play it safe and just keep your every two week income coming, and you know, that feels safe, right. When you do this type of thing, there's a certain amount of risk and it feels exhilarating and scary and, but there's also a lot of opportunity.
Any regret?
No. Zero. You know, there's no, you also develop this, this feeling of, I'm just not going to let it fail. It's just kind of this on, like, you just, you go to the end of the world to, to let, to make your baby successful, and that's kind of cool, too. It's like all of a sudden, that's a different level of passion than probably anybody is bringing to their job.
Yeah. Yes.
It's like, this is your business. This is going to live or die on you. The amount of effort and passion and thinking, sitting in bed at night thinking about it that you put into it is going to be unlike anything you've ever experienced before.
And that's really cool. It's like you're really going to immerse yourself in this more than you even know. You're going to care more than you even know. And it's going to stress you, but.
More than you even know.
Yeah, but it's a reflection of you and your effort.
Oh, I love that. It's a reflection of you.
It really is. It's a reflection of your values and what's important to you.
And it's, uh, that's the coolest thing about it. And then, and then you do kind of wish. You're like, I wish I did it earlier. Why did I wait till I was 43 to do this? Now I feel like I only have a certain window of life left to do it.
But.
And it is. It's so fulfilling and exhilarating. It really is like, yeah, it is. There is hard days, of course.
We're not going to lie, but you're right. It's a different level of, I don't even know, like you said, like a different level of passion that goes into your everyday different.
It's just, it's not, it's not external motivation. Right? Like, it's like if your boss is going, I want you to care more about this.
I'll give you a little piece of the pie if you sell more of these or whatever.
Yeah.
You know, ultimately it's coming from somewhere else. Somebody's kind of telling you what they want you to do with your job and where they want your energy and focus to be and all that. Right.
But when it's your own business, it's totally internal. There's nobody outside you pushing you. It's just all coming from within, which.
And the sky's the limit. Right.
It's like you get to create and figure out, like you said, like it changed from your year one to your year two. And what are you adding and what are you. And like, that creation part, I think, is, I think we're meant to create.
That's a big part of it. You're right.
It's the opportunity to have an idea and run with it and pull the trigger on it, as opposed to, if you're working for somebody, you'd have to go to them, go, look, I have this idea. I think we should do this. And then they're going to say, we'll put a proposal together.
Yeah.
And you need to communicate to me and sell to me that this idea you have is like, for sure going to work and we're going to make money off it versus you just knowing it's going to work and no plan.
You're just like, I know if I buy that thing, it's going to be successful. No business plan, just. It just. It just makes sense. You just know.
Yeah, I knew that. Buying five of these radars that cost $27,000 apiece and then another 15 to build the structure around and then another three for the three for the project. So I, you know, I bought.
I think your risk propensity is higher than mine tolerance.
I bought, like five of these simulators.
Yeah.
You know, now in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So you're just like, I know if I buy these things, this is going to create a great experience for people to come in and do indoor golf. And it was really cool to just shape those simulators. What chairs are they going to sit in?
Okay, let's buy a premium chair. Leather, black armrest. Let's get some nice wood. Wood tables. Not just order and have someone build them, custom stain the color.
I want, you know, building out the structure that people are going to experience the simulator in and the drapes that they use, privacy drapes and the turf they're going to walk on. And you name it. It just, it was fun and it was nice to not have to go to somebody above you and go, I think we should do this, and try to get them to buy into the. The premium chair and the premium wood.
Right.
Because you wouldn't have probably because they wouldn't have had the faith in it that you did. Well, the vision or the experience.
And a lot of times that person above you needs to go to a person above them.
Yeah.
They need to go to the person above them and go, yeah, I got this employee and he wants to do this.
And, you know, there's change, you know, levels to the corporate ladder and ultimately sign offs need to happen and they don't happen or they happen way down the road and you're banging your head against the wall saying, we're missing opportunity. And the funnest thing as a business owner is just pulling the trigger on things that you damn well know are a good idea. No business plan doesn't mean you didn't put a few things down on paper and go, okay, this is how much it costs, this how much we're going to sell it for, and it'll take. It's long to pay it off. Sure.
You do a little bit of excel docs and kind of quick.
You got to make sure it's like a calculated risk.
Yeah, I mean, that doesn't take long if you know the business. And I know golf and I knew it enough to know if I build these things, people will come here and they'll enjoy them and they have. They've been busy and.
Yeah, but that's what I think is the fun.
That's awesome.
You get to think up things and order things and sell things, create experiences, and you don't have to ask anybody whether or not, you know, you can just do it.
Yeah. And it must feel good, at least.
Well, probably still feels good, but, like, I can imagine first walking into it on, like, the day that you opened and just to be like, wow, I did this right with the team and, you know, but, like, you did that, I would.
There's still, certainly some of those feelings, I mean, as the days go on, you feel that less. But early on that was certainly the feeling. I remember sitting in this office when we just had our 1st 5000 sqft, that thing I showed you earlier that I held up and being so proud of that. And in reality, now that would be the least nice 5000 sqft we have.
The second five we added on was way better.
Yeah.
And the three we just added on are much nicer.
Yeah.
So, but I just remember being so proud of our first five and now I look, now we look at the first five and I get.
Could probably use a refresh and it's, yeah, not as nice as the rest of the place, but, but certainly proud of it when we started there.
Absolutely. I remember I took a photocopy of my first client paycheck like my first client and slapped it on my wall because I was like, I can't believe somebody just paid me to do this with them. This is what I love to do. And they just literally gave me all this money.
To me, my was just a little photocopy. So it was very different. But the feeling of that, that pride that you can get from that. Do you have anything else? Oh, tell, tell people how they can find you.
Like try out this premium golfing experience.
Yeah. I mean, the reality is in our business, most people are going to go to an indoor golf study that's relatively close. So, you know, it's not like real golf. You know, real golf, you might drive an hour or two if it's a really nice course.
You know, the reality is there's, there's probably a variety of indoor golf opportunities and experiences not too far from people. Now, to give you an example, in Burlington, Oakville, which are, as you know, two cities that are pretty much tied together, a lot of people use both cities for their, their restaurants and services. In our two cities of Burlington and Oakville, I think there's about 15 indoor golf places right now.
Really?
So that's, that's quite a bit.
Yeah.
But you're not, you're not going to drive to Toronto or Hamilton to go to indoor golf. Yeah, there's plenty of it right here. Right. So, you know, as far as people listening to your, your podcast here, I'll say this.
The nice thing is about our place is we do get some of that drop in business. Most of our businesses regular, they live ten minutes from here. They come here on a regular basis. They're members. But the cool thing about our place is we do back on at the QEw so someone's zipping down the highway and there's lots of traffic and they're like, oh, licensed sports on somebody.
So heck with it. Let's hop. Let's hop off, grab a beer and a pizza. Hit the balls. Cool about our facility is we kind of entertain both daily members, but we also have a hotel next to us.
We see people coming in over from the hotel when they're in town looking something. Yeah, for sure. If anybody is, uh, at the border of Burloak or, sorry, Burlington Oakville. That's where we're at, right on the border. That's why it's called Burloak.
Burlington Oakville.
Oh, nice.
Burlock Drive. And we back right onto the main highway. So very convenient location.
And you can just drop in, like, if you want.
There's no guarantee we'll have a bay available for them, but certainly we try to accommodate. Drop in. Yeah, but you can book online and everything's. All the services and opportunities are on the website.
Burlocindorgolf.com.
Perfect. Well, congratulations, my friend. I'm so, like I said, I'm just so proud of you. One for following your dream, and then two for, like, building this amazing facility that, you know, is helping so many people get through the winters and the summers.
But thank you.
Yeah, thanks for having me on. And congrats to you as well. Really cool. When I saw you take your plunge, it was really neat.
Obviously. I think I saw it on Facebook or wherever I saw it, but really, really neat to see you take the steps you have and I and do what you're doing.
Look at us little entrepreneurs. Love it.
Our dads would be proud.
They would be, for sure.
